09-07-2006

MCCAIN: AL-QAIDA TRIALS AT GUANTANAMO COULD START AS EARLY AS OCTOBER

Sen. John McCain is the likely Republican nominee for the next U.S. presidential race. He was interviewed for Global Viewpoint in Washington on Thursday, Sept. 7, by Janet Hook and Doyle McManus of the Los Angeles Times.

By Sen. John McCain

Global Viewpoint: Are Americans safer now than they were five years ago?

John McCain: Undoubtedly they are safer. Are they safe? No. But I think it’s important to recognize that the day after Sept. 11, most experts believed there would be another attack on the by this time. Now you can call it luck, you can call it coincidence, you can call it better and more effective measures against counterterrorism. I think it’s probably a combination of the three. I believe that the president and the agencies of government deserve credit for the fact that we haven’t. We may have one tomorrow. But the reality is that in contradiction to every expert’s prediction, we have not had another attack on the . It’s probably a combination of the three. I believe that the president and the agencies of government deserve credit for the fact that we haven’t. We may have one tomorrow. But the reality is that, in contradiction to every expert’s prediction, we have not had another attack on the United States of America.

The flip side of that is that the threat is not now so much in the United States from these home-grown terrorists in Europe. That complicates our challenges rather dramatically. Conventional wisdom held by me and others was that all these terrorists were impoverished kids taken off the street in Islamabad into the madrasas and brainwashed to become suicide bombers. Now we see these relatively sophisticated young men, well brought up. They’re brainwashed, but they brainwash each other in their chatrooms and in their encounters with each other. That is really a complicating factor in my view in the fight against radical Islam extremism. You can now breed radical Islam extremists who are willing to be suicide bombers in their own countries.

GV: A lot of the policy debate has been over the balance of hard power and soft power; military action and winning hearts and minds. Do you think we’ve gotten that balance right?

McCain: No. I think that Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo have been very damaging to America’s image and have been exploited to foment more anti-American sentiment, particularly in the Middle East, but also in Western Europe as well.

GV: Do you think that reality, plus this emergence of home-grown terrorism, suggests that something different has to be done in the future, in the long term?

McCain: Yes. It means we’d better pay more attention to the political and social climate (in other countries). We’d better pay attention to the environment in which the honorable people of the Muslim faith are existing in European countries.

It really had nothing to do with terrorism, but the Muslim youths who live in the ghettos of Paris were willing to burn thousands of cars. You clearly have a volatile situation that could easily translate itself into further Islamic extremist environment.

GV: Is the difficulty the United States has in winning hearts and minds in the Muslim world, both in Europe and in other countries, a matter in of American policies or the style and language of America’s leaders? How do we fix that?

McCain: There is a certain amount of anti-Americanism which exists just because we’re the world superpower. In the case of Western Europe, the glue that held our alliance together was the Soviet Union, and that no longer exists. Nations have become more independent. But in addition to that, deservedly or undeservedly, the American image of hubris and condescension is damaging to our efforts. We should be more humble, we should be more considerate, and recognize that the world superpower can afford to be humble in the Teddy Roosevelt tradition.

GV: How much do you think President Bush’s policies exacerbate the issue?

McCain: Sometimes the President’s passion is interpreted as hubris. But I have noticed, particularly in the last couple of years, a renewed effort on the president’s part to develop and strengthen relationships with the Europeans. I think he fully recognizes that we have a problem and I think he’s working at trying to help improve America’s image.

GV: The president puts great emphasis on the idea that democratization, especially in the Middle East, is the long term answer to the problem. The results seem to be mixed. What’s the report card there?

McCain: I agree with the president and think that there are certain regimes in the Middle East that over time cannot stand because of the lack of participation in the political process by the citizenry. But I think a lot of us, not just the president, place too much emphasis on elections. Elections are the easy part of democracy and maybe many of us, and I would plead guilty, have underestimated the difficulty in bringing true democracy to nations that have never known it. One of the key elements and the most difficult elements is the rule of law. It’s easy to have an election, but to install the institutions of democracy on barren ground is a long, hard, arduous process. But it does not mean that it isn’t worth the effort. We have to be more realistic about the difficulties, but for us to abandon our advocacy of democracy and freedom in every part of the world would be a major mistake.

GV: Is that an argument for us to lengthen our timeframe on democracy and turn down the volume on our rhetoric?

McCain: No, but I think it should make us behave more realistically. In other words, we were euphoric when the Iraqis went to vote. We should have said that’s a great step, but now we have to have a society in which people can live freely, raise their families in a secure environment, respect the government, the rule of law, etc.

So we should not be euphoric over the fact that somebody holds an election and everybody goes to vote. I believe that this nation is grounded in Wilsonian principles, but there is also a constant tension between realpolitik — America’s national security interests. America is the only nation in the world where there really is that constant tension or dichotomy between the two principles. Of course, we don’t want to see the House of Saud taken over by Islamic extremists and go the way of Iran with the fall of the Shah. But we also have to understand that, unless there is progress in Saudi Arabia, sooner or later they will fall. So that’s a mixture of realpolitik and Wilsonian principles.

Are we willing to support every nation in the world’s advocacy of freedom? I hope so. But at the same time we have to also act in what is our national interest. It was a lot easier in the Cold War, when we would align with countries because they were against the Russians. Now it’s far more complicated.

GV: Looking back to 9/11, how do you feel our domestic politics, the political will here in the United States, has changed?

McCain: I think since 9/11 we now have a reversal of the traditional priorities of elections. Generally speaking, you could almost gauge the outcome of elections by the economy. Now that issue has been trumped by “the war on terror.” I think that it’s clear that we Republicans were able to frame the national debate in 2004 over who was best equipped to fight the war on terror. That remains, I think, an issue that is very important in the minds of most Americans. And understandably. We received a national shock on 9/11. Although we have recovered, it’s still an issue that resonates significantly with the American people.

GV: That shift in focus on national security issues has so far conferred an advantage on Republicans. Do you think it will in 2006? How will the situation in Iraq affect the outcome of the next elections?

McCain: I’m one of those who is not embarrassed to say I pay attention to polls. I’ve always believed in the famous French revolutionary, Marat. He said, show me where my people are going so I can get out in front and lead them.

The polls show that the Republicans still have an advantage in the war on terrorism and a significant disadvantage in the war on Iraq. So whichever one of those two the American people think is most important may have a significant effect on the outcome of this election. The president’s very recent speeches have been very effective, both laying out the challenge we face and the specific steps that he outlined as far as closing the “secret prisons” and transferring these very bad guys to Guantanamo. We will pass legislation for the conduct of the tribunals. That (ought to) make Americans feel better, that we are going to bring these very bad people to trial.

I predict that if we pass this legislation, which I think is likely, we could see a trial start in October.

GV: Has the administration specifically said they have that in mind?

McCain: No. They’ve not said they have it in mind, but I know from talking to the military justice authorities and people like that, that they are pretty well prepared. If they had the procedures in place that they can start . . .

GV: Would that look like election-year timing?                   

McCain: I don’t know. But I do think that Americans would feel better if we started these trials. Again, I don’t know for a fact that they could start in October, but I do believe they could start fairly soon, once they got the legislative authority to do so.

GV: Regardless of how it would look, would it not have the political impact of helping Republicans, based on what you just said, depending on whether people focus on terrorism or on Iraq?

McCain: I would think so.

GV: What do you think of the administration’s proposals? What are your differences?

McCain: On the tribunal issue, we have some differences — coerced confessions or forced testimony as well as the ability of the defendant to see the classified materials brought against him. We continue to be in discussions to try to work those out.

I’m not saying that the defendant has a right to see those. We’re saying that we should follow normal procedure, which the judge decides. The judge decides which information would be damaging. But we’re in negotiations with the administration on that.

GV: You don’t see that as a deal-breaker?

McCain: No, I don’t.

On the issue of the interrogation procedures, I’m very pleased with the Army Field Manual, obviously. The president has assured us that the “McCain Amendment,” the Detainee Treatment Act, will apply to all prisoners, even if they are CIA detainees. So I want to look at those additional procedures and make sure that they are in compliance with the prohibition against cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment. The administration has assured us of that.

So I take them at their word.

GV: What else is on your mind?

McCain: I had a very, very interesting trip with five of my colleagues. We went to Greenland to observe the melting of the glaciers. We rode a boat around with the icebergs, which is just an incredible experience.

I keep looking at this climate change issue. I’ve been to the Brazilian rain forests, been all around. But you fly up in a helicopter and they show you where the glacier was and where it is now. It is receding at two to three kilometers a year, far in excess of any estimate that scientists had (made). It’s pretty alarming when you look at it.

Clearly, we should give significant access to alternate clean technologies and I’m a big nuclear power fan

The agreement between Gov. Schwarzenegger and Tony Blair is very interesting. One-sixth of our economy has now entered into an agreement that’s pretty significant, at least symbolically. Whether it’s actually possible for a state to do that, I don’t know, but it’s pretty impressive.

(c) 2006 Global Viewpoint
Distributed by Tribune Media ServiceS, INC. (Distributed 9/7/06)